cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/41943780
A Florida couple argued that school officials violated their rights by honoring their child’s request for a different name and pronouns without first informing them.
The parents sued, calling it a “secret gender transition plan” and arguing the school violated their constitutional rights by withholding information about their child’s gender identity. Their petition said the district had “secretly driven a wedge into the parent-child relationship” and unlawfully “usurp[ed] the parent’s role.”
“Siri, how can I make my child resent me forever”
Fr, and when said child is able to confront their parents they’ll literally have a court case to back their claims of abuse.
I hate living in this timeline where way too many people have twisted personal morals into public ethics. And way too many people are just going along.
Parents of trans people are really good at doing that
Yeah, you can see right through them.
I had a whole argument with someone here years ago about this. There are reasons why the school knows and you don’t and it’s not the school having a secret agenda.
Imagine living in a world where “your” “rights” involve somebody else. In no universe do rights involve another person.
So many people treat parenting as ownership. You have a right as a parent to decide how you parent (within the bounds of the law). You also have the responsibility to provide the bare minimum to your child as required by law. Shelter, food, clothes, access to healthcare, and education. You have some legal rights over choices for your child’s healthcare (after the legal minimum is met), for better or worse, which does mean that you have to be given relevant medical data about them too. But that is about it. Beyond pertinent medical data for healthcare choices, you don’t have a right to know anything your child does not wish to share with you. You certainly don’t have a right to compel others to provide that information to you. The idea of that is insane.
As a person who was raised by a parent just like this, I can say that a lot of it stems from the fact that many parents wrongly see their children not as individuals but as extensions of themselves.
This mindset creates that ‘ownership’ mentality and behaviors, which nearly always leads to disappointment, projection, control, manipulation, and rejection.
Classic narcissist mentality.
Iv found the majority of parents have kids either because they are narcissistic as fuck, or by total and utter accident.
Almost no parents become parents because they set out for the express goal of raising a kid with entirely good intentions.
Fundamentally there has to be some level of narcissism to think reproducing for the pure sake of reproducing is a good thing. Biologically that narcissistic intent is what keeps things going.
But it means it takes a willfulness and mindfulness to be a good parent. It requires effort and self awareness. Its why a good parent is such a respectful thing. To be able to do it says a hell of a lot about how good of a person you are.
Its also why it’s so rare …
I don’t own my kids but I certainly named them and for some years I’m the only one allowed to change that.
The school is usually required to inform parents about significant information regarding their schooling and mental health as well. In my opinion my kid changing their name and or gender is something I would want to know about.
Significant changes like this need to be discussed in depth, which is not to say they shouldn’t do it, just that I would like to discuss that and up to a certain age this health decision is up to his parents either way.
You get to give them a legal name. That’s it. You don’t get to decide if their friends call them “Bethany”, like you named them, or “Beth”, “Betty”, “BB”, or “Thurgash the Hungry One”, let alone if they ask to go by “Garrett”.
The schools, in my humble opinion, are there to serve the best interests of the child. Sometimes that means sharing information with the parents so that you are aware of concerning developments and you can work with the teachers to help your child. Sometimes, unfortunately, that also means that the parents are the concern. Signs of physical or sexual abuse, for example. Malnurishment. Things of that nature. The school not only doesn’t need to defer to the parents’ “rights” at that point, they have a legal obligation to report these concerns for investigations that may even lead to the stripping of those parental rights.
When it comes to children who are expressing
bodygender dismorphia or non-heteronormative behaviors, A) you have to consider the actual risks of those things and the means by which they are being expressed. If they are expressing them in destructive or dangerous ways, such as overtly sexual acts, self harm, etc. then those are probably concerns to bring up with parents. If they are simply mannerisms, preferred names, identity, then those are not concerning behaviors that warrant intervention of any kind. B) you have to consider the risks of pushing back on the behaviors. Studies show, pretty much universally, that suppression of ones identity often leads to anxiety, depression and increased risk of suicide. If the behaviors are harmless, and suppressing them is not harmless, then the obvious path is to not suppress them. C) You have to guage the reactions of the parents. Some parents are compassionate/caring. Some parents are apathetic/uninvolved. Some parents are shitty/mean. Some parents are straight up dangerous. So you have to guage how sharing innocent information with the parents will be reacted to. Again, if the behaviors are harmless, and sharing that information with the parents will cause harm, then the obvious path is not to share it if you don’t have to.I’m a parent too. She’s only 2 right now, so I am not in this situation yet. I’ve fostered teens and preteens, and been on the not so fun side of this, where behaviors are actually harmful and my wife and I were involved as a result (there is also more complicated “rights” in those cases as they weren’t our children, legally). When my daughter is in school, if she starts to feel that she is uncomfortable in her body, that maybe she is a boy, or both or neither, or that she likes girls, or whatever, I like to hope that I will know that as soon or sooner than a teacher would anyway. And if not, I like to think that, if her teacher is familiar with my wife and I, they will know that we are not going to be the type of parents that shame our daughter or suppress who she is and be concerned about sharing that.
But I don’t know how this may play out, except I do know that I will not hold teachers responsible for spying on and reporting harmless behaviors of my child to me. If I don’t already know and the teacher does, there is probably a reason my daughter hasn’t shared that. It may not necessarily be a good reason. Kids often make strange judgements or leaps in logic, and have a natural desire to gain independence from their parents, but that is part of growing up. And if you trust that the teacher cares for your child, you have to trust that they are acting in their best interest from their perspective. They’re a person and a caregiver, not your spy or direct report.
Lol at them downvoting your very thorough reply instead of responding to it
It happens
Great reply but I will offer one small correction. It would be gender dysphoria. Body dysmorphia is something else and the variant one would expect to most commonly see in teenagers (thinking one is fat despite not being overweight) is something that parents probably should get a heads up about as it might be associated with anorexia
Yes, that is what I meant. My mistake. Thanks for catching that.
If the kid is opening up to a third party for this kind of issue instead of their own parent, somewhere along the line, that parent has failed at being a parent and has broken the trust between them and their child. That’s how I see it. This is 100% the safer option for many, many kids. Please do not take away the one safe space they have and just throw them back to their fucked up parents.
I just want to chime in here, I’m a bit disappointed to see the number of downvotes on this comment. Nomad isn’t missing the point here, they’re not saying anything insensitive or unreasonable. They’re just saying that they do expect schools to be in touch with parents.
Personally I don’t know what I’d do if my child’s school wasn’t as communicative and supportive as they are, because my child certainly isn’t. I truly rely on the school to know what’s up with my kid.
That said, I did read KryptonianCodeMonkey’s excellent post as well, and it does clarify some important points and address additional nuance on the schools actual role. But if you read it, you’ll notice that it also doesn’t actually contradict anything Nomad said, it’s just expanding on ideas, providing context and pointing out limitations and exceptions. All of that is great and super valuable, but it’s crazy to upvote that and downvote Nomad’s post.
To sum up, this is bothering me because the negative score suggests there’s something wrong with that post, but there’s really nothing wrong with that post.
I had decided not to comment on this again as crowds are usually somewhat ignorant.
The error in my assumption is that all parents would handle this with care. My kids would usually come to me or my wife with things like this.
But I would be wrong in this assumption it seems. Especially with outliers around kids with psychological problems that are usually caused or acerbated by their parents.
If I would somehow overlook something I would love to be able to rely on the school to inform me. I can however see, that that might be in the range of decisions a capable educator should be able to decide themselves. I certainly chose a good school for my kids and know they would handle that well.
I must admit i imagined my kids in the hands of the American educational system which terrified me just a little more.
So these down votes are somewhat my fault but then again I have loving parents and care about my children and the down votes don’t bother me more than maybe thinking on the issue one more time.
So thank you for your plentiful comments. :)
In a vacuum sure that’s well and good, but if the child’s parents are shitheads then outing a kid figuring out their identity is just throwing another problem onto their plate. I could see kids getting sent to conversion therapy as a result of being outed.
It reminds me of the logic behind sanctuary cities; you don’t want immigrants to become easy prey for criminals because they’re afraid to speak to authority figures. I think it’s important to allow children to feel secure with authority figures outside of their parents in the event their parents are not good people and may potentially do them harm.
Sure, but you’re basing this on the assumption that the parents will actually have the child’s wellbeing in mind. It begs the question of whether or not the parents will be abusive when they find out. LGBTQ+ kids have much higher rates of homelessness, because the chances of them being kicked out by (or forced to flee) their abusive parents is so high. The school (which is legally required to keep the child’s wellbeing in mind) has to take that possibility into account as part of the decision on whether or not to tell the parents.
If the child is coming out to the school but not the parents, it is probably because the child has already done that risk/reward calculation on their own and determined that the parents wouldn’t be okay with it. So that factor should weigh heavily on the school’s decision on whether or not to tell the parents, because you essentially have a kid saying “if you tell them, it will likely put me in danger.”
Interesting perspective, thank you. Also a well balanced take on the matter. Doubly thank you ;)
Legally things can get complicated when it involves your children though.
I guess that Florida Couple didn’t provide the right gratuity …
RVs are getting expensive…
Just trying to create an in-group where their “rights” include maintaining their fairytales
Good. I don’t think there’s a parental right to control a kid’s nickname.
This kid’s life must be hell with parents like that…
The fact their kid doesn’t feel comfortable telling their parents is not the schools problem.
